Network problem; sharing waypoints

[Steve Wood]

Todd, I have a NEMA 2000 network set up in my boat with an LCX-25c at the console, an LGC-3000 antenna, and an HDS-5 in front. This weekend I decided to switch the position of my GPS units as I'm going to upgrade the map chip in the HDS unit to Navionics Hotmap Premium to get better detail on some smaller lakes that I'm planning to fish. I haven't rec'd the chip yet, but my understanding is that it won't work in the LCX-25c unit. I have the network powered through the power connector at the console GPS and when I switched units, the network quit working. I researched why and determined that the HDS unit won't power the network so I revised my wiring to get that working again.

My problem may have been there in the original configuration also, but the HDS-5 unit cannot "see" (read) the waypoints on the LCX-25c unit which is where the majority of mine are stored. The LCX-25c can read the waypoints from the HDS. It seems like that is one of the primary purposes of the network; to share waypoints and data. Is this correctable?

One thing I haven't done yet is update to the V4.1 software. I did that earlier and it took away the capability to read my LakeMaster chip. I wanted to get the Navionics installed first before I upgrade the software and I did not expect that to be the source of my problem either.

One other question: is there any issue with having a LakeMaster map chip in the LCX unit and a Navionics chip in the HDS unit?

[Todd Driscoll]

Todd, I have a NEMA 2000 network set up in my boat with an LCX-25c at the console, an LGC-3000 antenna, and an HDS-5 in front. This weekend I decided to switch the position of my GPS units as I'm going to upgrade the map chip in the HDS unit to Navionics Hotmap Premium to get better detail on some smaller lakes that I'm planning to fish. I haven't rec'd the chip yet, but my understanding is that it won't work in the LCX-25c unit. I have the network powered through the power connector at the console GPS and when I switched units, the network quit working. I researched why and determined that the HDS unit won't power the network so I revised my wiring to get that working again.

My problem may have been there in the original configuration also, but the HDS-5 unit cannot "see" (read) the waypoints on the LCX-25c unit which is where the majority of mine are stored. The LCX-25c can read the waypoints from the HDS. It seems like that is one of the primary purposes of the network; to share waypoints and data. Is this correctable?

One thing I haven't done yet is update to the V4.1 software. I did that earlier and it took away the capability to read my LakeMaster chip. I wanted to get the Navionics installed first before I upgrade the software and I did not expect that to be the source of my problem either.

One other question: is there any issue with having a LakeMaster map chip in the LCX unit and a Navionics chip in the HDS unit?

Steve, you are right. You cannot power the NMEA network through an HDS unit. So yes, you need to swap power cables as well as units, then repower the NMEA leg of the 25 power cable. HDS unit power cables don't have a NMEA power leg. An additional way to power the network is with a power node (network tee with power cables).

Regarding the 25 and compatibility with new Navionics Premium cards, call Navionics CS if you haven't already. I ran Premium cards in those older units, so I do know that older map card versions did work.

With just the NMEA 2000 network, level of wpt sharing is newly created wpts only, and only if both units are powered. With this said, this level of sharing should certainly work both ways between units. Just make sure that on both units, you do have NMEA 2000 wpt sharing enabled. Enabled is the default setting, but maybe you unknowingly disabled it.

No issues at all running Lakemaster in one unit and Navionics in the other. Mapping is stand-alone and unit-specific with no sharing of mapping data over the network.

[Steve Wood]

Thanks for the prompt reply Todd. I did already repower the network by running power to the NEMA 2000 portion of the front (LCX25) power plug. I disconnected the console power supply but left the wires and connectors there in case I want to move it back later. I was able to solve this problem by reading through the info on the website under "Network". I could tell the network wasn't getting power.

I didn't call Navionics CS, but their website shows compatibility starting with about the LCX27's. I'll try the chip in that unit when I get it to see, but I'm not expecting it to work. I was also curious to see if the HDS gave a better resolution of the weeds and bottom structure through the Lowrance transducer than through the Minnkota transducer I was using. That was another reason to try moving it back. I prefer the controls and menus on the LCX25 though and the larger display if everything else were equal. The sonar resolution seems better on the HDS though.

Back to the question of sharing waypoints though, what exactly is meant by "level of wpt sharing is newly created wpts only"? Does this mean that the HDS unit had to be in the network and operational at the time the waypoint was saved on the LCX25? The HDS was a replacement for a 520 that died so it would not have been present for the creation of most of those waypoints. I understand that I have to have both units powered up to share data and also that "waypoint sharing" must be enabled. I'm pretty certain it is, but I'll double check this when I get home (assuming I can find that menu choice on the HDS unit). I can try creating a new test waypoint on the 25 and see if that shows up on the HDS.

Something else you said raises another question. "With just the NMEA 2000 network" implies that there are other (perhaps better?) ways to share data between units than using the NEMA 2000 network. I'm guessing that I can copy waypoints and trails to a card and download them onto the HDS unit if that is needed to view older waypoints. Are there other ways to connect 2 GPS units together?

[Todd Driscoll]

Does this mean that the HDS unit had to be in the network and operational at the time the waypoint was saved on the LCX25? Yes, exactly.

The latest and most efficient network now is Ethernet (yellow end cables). With HDS units, Ethernet is how the StructureScan and a few other devices communicate with the units. In addition, two or more HDS units Ethernet-linked provide "complete" wpt sharing - not only new wpts, but wpt deletions, edits, etc., and all this info is constantly shared any time units are powered up. You could load 100 wpts on one unit, then turn an Ethernet-linked unit on, and all 100 wpts would be shared. Ethernet also provides ability to share 2D sonar ducers with all linked units. The series of units just prior to HDS (520, 27, 37, 112) have an Ethernet port but only provide 2D sonar sharing - no wpt sharing via Ethernet with these units.

Yes, to get all wpts from your 520 to HDS, export .usr file from 520 and import on HDS.

[rjruda]

Todd, would it be possible to get the v4.0 download sent to me? I need to update my HDS units and am using Lakemaster chips currently which Steve mentioned in an earlier thread that the 4.1 would work those chips.

[Steve Wood]

Rob, I can answer that since I went through it in June. I had to call Customer Service and get them to snail mail me an SD card with the V4.0 software file. They sent a self addressed envelope for me to return the card to them after I downloaded it. I have the 4.0 file and can give it to you at our next MFL event if you like. Let me know.

What version of software do you have now? Also, do you have the Gen I or Gen II HDS unit? Mine is Gen I and that is what the 4.0 software is for. I'm not sure that LakeMaster chips will work at all with Gen II units. Todd will have to answer that if that's what you have.

[Steve Wood]

Todd, back to waypoint sharing, I did try creating a new waypt on the 25c, but it wouldn't let me do it. Said storage full; delete some data so I did - a LOT of data. Unit still said storage was 100% full even though I had deleted all waypoints and trails. I then did a hard reset (had previously tried soft resets) and that cleared my memory which did allow me to create a new test data point and that waypt WAS shared with the HDS-5 unit. I tried reloading my waypoints to the 25c from an SD card, but those did not show up on the HDS unit as shared. I thought they might. The reloading of all my waypoints only brought the storage up to 3% full so there was a bunch of something else in memory. I've got a lot of junk on there that I'll need to edit, but it appears like everything is now working as it is supposed to. Thanks for your help.

[Todd Driscoll]

Wpts will only share via NMEA 2000 when created on the unit like you describe (not loaded via SD card), so yes all is working fine. However, with Ethernet and HDS units, all wpts will also share to all linked units when loading a .usr file.

Regarding Gen2 and Lakemaster, yes same issues as with 4.1 software and Gen1. The cards still show some detail (usually contours show up but shaded relief does not), but not all using the current format. This format was communicated to LakeMaster when they were still an independent company and still making mapping for our units, but was not implemented by them. Obviously now that they are owned by Johnson Marine this will not be addressed by them. New for 2012, Lowrance does offer our version of high-detail lake maps and ours is all on one card as opposed to several different cards. See links below for lakes/areas covered by our Insight Pro and Insight HD cards.

Content with Shaded Relief: http://www.lowrance.com/Products/Map...ke-Insight-HD/



Content without Shaded Relief: http://www.lowrance.com/Products/Map...e-Insight-Pro/

[Steve Wood]

Todd, thanks for the detailed explanations on how this works. I would NEVER have imagined that networked units that can see each other's data wouldn't be able to read all the data. It seems harder and more complicated to limit what they can and can't display. I suspect this may have something to do with preventing map data from displaying on a networked plotter thereby requiring a separate map chip for each unit. Or maybe the NEMA network function just saves the waypoint to both plotters? In that case it would be there with or without the network connected and I don't believe that it worked that way.